a fool's musings

Fool, said my muse to me, look in thy heart and write...

Warning: Adult Content achromatic unfinished fic graveyard recs journal new stuff recent stuff my back pages January 2004 December 2003 November 2003 October 2003 September 2003 August 2003 July 2003 June 2003 May 2003 April 2003 March 2003 February 2003 January 2003 December 2002 November 2002 October 2002 September 2002 August 2002 July 2002 June 2002 May 2002 April 2002 March 2002 February 2002 January 2002 December 2001 November 2001 the five Ws, or, all about me profile e-mail victoria my livejournal the original P&R comments current mood: "pathological and unbalanced" Items of Interest People LiveJournal folks Baraita bishclone claritylit Jintian Kat Allison Kit Mason metablog mix-tapes Neil Gaiman Nestra Sarah T. Seema Shrift Sundry Mourning zendom Music Walk On - U2 Thunder Road - Bruce Springsteen If I Can't Change Your Mind - Sugar Sick of Myself - Matthew Sweet Town Called Malice - The Jam One - U2 The Space Between - DMB Books Lord of the Rings Catch-22 The Neely Trilogy Absalom! Absalom! Possession: A Romance Foucault's Pendulum Dreamhouse LA Confidential I Capture the Castle Sandman Waking the Moon Shows Angel Buffy the Vampire Slayer (in reruns) Alias West Wing The Simpsons webrings < ? fanfiction ! > < ? writers ! > diaryreviews.diaryland.com NYC Bloggers Comments by Haloscan.com all links, if I haven't screwed up somehow, should open in a new browser window

2002-05-23 - 1:20 a.m. Shrek! Shrek. The Rufus Wainwright version was used in Shrek. I knew I should have bought that soundtrack. The scary thing is - this diary provided the answer. ::shakes head:: I need to sleep now. [current mood: ] [current music: ] [random quote: ] ~*~ 2002-05-22 - 12:15 a.m. survey whore WW season finale thoughts up in the LJ. I asked over there, but I'll ask here as well. Anyone know what other television shows have used Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah? I would have sworn it was Homicide, but now I'm thinking no, it was more recent. So if anyone can give me an idea... I thought it might be The Sopranos, but a quick search says not. So if you know, email me please. Buffy and Angel surveys. I figured I'd play along... 1. What ONE thing do you most love about "Buffy: The Vampire Slayer"? Xander. 2. What are your TWO favorite seasons? Two and three. 3. What are your THREE favorite lines (from the show)? Only three? Sheesh... with the caveat that this changes moment to moment: "But what else could I expect from a bunch of low rent, no account hoodlums like you -- hoodlums! Yes. I mean you and your friends, your whole sex, throw 'em all in the sea for all I care, throw 'em in and wait for the bubbles. Men, with your groping and spitting, all groin no brain three billion of ya passin' around the same worn out urge. Men. With your -- sales." Buffy in Willow's dream in Restless Xander: "You have no shame." Cordelia: "Oh, please. Like shame is something to be proud of." from Earshot Cordelia: “One day you’re going to wake up in a coma.” Giles: “Wake up in a … never mind. We have to save Buffy from Hansel and Gretel." from Gingerbread I've got more... 4. What are your FOUR favorite fanfic stories? Doorway to a Thousand Churches by Loki Human by Ins Xanderslut by the Webrain Still Life in Glass - Annie Sewell-Jennings 5. What are your FIVE favorite episodes? Passion Prophecy Girl/WSWB This Year's Girl/Who Are You? Becoming Halloween Favourite villain(s): Angelus, Spike, Faith Favourite canon 'ship: Xander/Willow Favourite non-canon het pairing: Giles/Cordelia Favourite Xander slash pairing: Xander/Angel Favourite Angel slash pairing: Angel/Xander Favourite Oz slash pairing: Xander/Oz [or Devon/Oz] Favourite other m/m slash pairing: Giles/Ethan Favourite femslash pairing: Cordelia/Faith Is there anything else? Episode that disturbs me too much to watch in its entirety: Passion or The Body Episode that I like despite the fact that many people don't: Oh god, so many. Go Fish, 'cause Xander in a speedo... and Cordy's poolside speech, and Willow interrogating Jonathan, and the whole "Demons with high cholesterol" conversation... Angel 1. Complete the sentence: Angel is to Buffy: the Vampire Slayer as ____ is to _____? Frasier is to Cheers 2. Which of the main characters (i.e. those in the credits) is your favourite? Wesley [used to be Cordy, but...] 3. Which of the recurring cast is your favourite? I suppose Lindsey no longer counts, eh? And Faith is a special guest star? Lilah, then. Or Lorne. 4. Favourite 3 episodes? Five by Five/Sanctuary Somnambulist I've Got You Under My Skin Lonely Hearts The Prodigal 5. Favourite 2 quotes? Kate: “Way to come off like a drunken slut. Slut's better than a hypocrite, right? I'm moving up?” Angel: “You're kind of hard on yourself.” Kate: “Well, I'm a self-flagellating hypocrite slut. What was the question?” in Lonely Hearts Cordelia: "I learned, um... men are evil? Oh, wait... I knew that. I learned that LA is full of self-serving phonies. No... had that one down, too. Uh... sex is bad?" Angel: "We all knew that." from Expecting 6. Favourite canon pairing(s)? Wesley/Lilah, or Angel/Cordelia if they ever get it right 7. Favourite UC het pairing(s)? Wes/Lilah, Cordy/Lindsey 8. Favourite boyslash pairing(s)? Gunn/Wesley, Lindsey/Wesley, Wesley/Angel, Lindsey/Angel 9. Favourite femslash pairing(s)? Cordy/Faith 10. Another Sunnydale resident or ex-resident arrives in LA to join the team. You get to choose who. Name them. Giles. 12. Where is Lindsey now and what (or who) is he doing? Lindsey found his way back to Smallville, Kansas and is offering free advice on weirdness to Lex Luthor in return for incredible, mindblowing sex. Hee! That was fun! ~victoria link [current mood: surveylicious] [current music: Milk - Garbage] [random quote: Revenge is like you taking poison, and hoping the other guy dies. ~ Tim Bayliss] ~*~ 2002-05-22 - 12:27 p.m. Unconfirmed but in the news A female skull has been found in Rock Creek Park [okay, why'd it have to be one of the few DC locations I can picture *exactly*?]. Investigators believe it to be the skull of Chandra Levy. You know, as morbid as it may sound, I hope so, if only so her family can get some closure. ~victoria [current mood: sad] [current music: Voodoo Chile (Slight Return) - Stevie Ray Vaughn] [random quote: The work itself is the most important thing. What we do is important. We speak for those who can no longer speak for themselves] ~*~ 2002-05-22 - 10:47 a.m. this is important news? I got nothing. And no one's updating and entertaining me. Waaah! Nice to know I can still set the cat among the pigeons, though. Okay, so last night on the news, lead story: City On Alert for Terrorist Attacks. Second lead: Boy found tied to picnic table at bottom of pool Third lead: Is Mike Piazza gay? WTF? Okay, so the city is under threat of terrorist attacks, the Brooklyn Bridge is closed, and the third thing mentioned on the local newscasts is about Mike Piazza's sexuality? Is it me or is there something seriously wrong with our news media? ::shakes head:: And I thought *my* priorities were screwy. I mean, I think, if I tried really, really hard, I could possibly care less about that than I do now, but it'd be a struggle. ~*~ If anyone's got any good morning sickness/pregnancy stories, email me. I might need 'em for a fic. ~*~ As predicted, no writing got done last night, as I was busy reading reactions to the season finales, and also digging myself in deeper with the tense/POV thing. *g* But I've got plans, oh yes, big writing plans, now that the television season is all but over. After tonight's WW finale, I'm free of televised obligations, which means more time online and more time reading and writing. I hope. There's even the startling possibility that I'll get caught up on email. Hey, you never know... ~*~ So, I was talking about songfic yesterday, and this morning I was listening to "Gimme Shelter," which is only one of the greatest songs of all time, and dammit, I see things when I hear that song. I see people rioting in the streets, and cops in riot gear, and helicopters. "Gimme Shelter" demands helicopters and rioting. Sirens wailing and blood flowing and fists flying and just generalized mayhem. Or possibly soldiers running from a chopper into the jungles of the Nam. I'm not sure if I've seen that somewhere. Has Scorcese used it like that? Or Oliver Stone? Or is it just some odd connection made in my brain? But yeah, helicopters, violence (cinematic, of course) and "Gimme Shelter." Does it get any better than that, imagery-wise? ~*~ Updated The Muse's Fool, adding In the Silences, the Logan/Rogue ficlet I wrote in the LJ yesterday. ~victoria link [current mood: bored] [current music: Adam Raised a Cain - Bruce Springsteen] [random quote: He was standing in the door I was standing in the rain with the same hot blood running in our veins Adam raised a Cain] ~*~ 2002-05-21 - 11:42 p.m. Buffy and Smallville etc. Thoughts on Buffy and Smallville over in the LJ. There's a big Buffy spoiler down at the end of this post. Be warned. It's not blued out. It made my night. It might have made my fucking summer, and saved BtVS for me as a show. (though other things I've heard point to that as being overly optimistic.) I liked both, but I didn't like SV as much as other people did, I think. It dragged in lots of spots, where I don't think it should have. I realize they wanted a cliffhanger, but ...too much Lana/Whitney. Not enough Clark/Lex or Clark/Chloe. And of course, Lex-Lionel... How delish was *that*? Hee! Of course, I was a big fangrrrlish bundle of glee at the climax of Buffy, so I can't complain too much. ~*~ On style/tense/POV - yes, it's subjective. Yes, I made some broad generalizations. No, I wasn't talking about any one person in particular. Yes, I tend to exaggerate when I'm annoyed, and yes, I get irritated *very* easily. What's your point? How many more disclaimers do people want? I'm opinionated. Deal with it. ~*~ I've got the refrain from "Falling in Love" by Lisa Loeb in my head: the time between meeting and finally leaving is sometimes called falling in love. I might have to write a fic around that. Hmm... ~*~ Okay, turn back now, because if you scroll down, you'll see the spoiler for the Buffy season finale. X X X X X X X X X X Xander saved the world! Squee! ~victoria Queen of the Xanderistas link [current mood: giddy] [current music: You're So Vain - Carly Simon] [random quote: the time between meeting and finally leaving is sometimes called falling in love] ~*~ 2002-05-21 - 6:10 p.m. past, present, first, second, third... apparently the rant on style and tense touched a nerve. Um, really, I'm much nicer than I seem when I rant. I'm actually the nicest person I know. ::thinks about that:: Which may not say much about the people I know... ::rim shot:: Seriously, though, it wasn't directed at any *one* author in particular, but instead at the whole of Smallville fandom, or the CLexy parts of it, which is most of what I was looking at last night and this morning, and well, I reached critical mass on present tense narrative. I agree that it's not *bad* on its own merits, that it can be good in the right hands or in the right type of story. Like I said, I've written any number of present tense fics myself, and I think they're pretty damned good. But... and you knew there was a but, right? But... I think the fandom is overwhelmed with it. I think it *is* becoming a Smallville identifier, and I don't think it should be. Some of it is personal preference. I prefer longer stories to be in past tense, either first, third limited or third omniscient. The less said about second, the better (though I will, further down, say more. I've never known when to shut my mouth. It's one of my most charming traits. *snicker*). Jenn writes: See, that's the thing, and it's my personal tic. I don't give a damn how a writer writes a story if it's good. I don't get annoyed by choice of point of view or style--it's content and skill level. Well, of course. But don't you also find that reading story after story in the same style and tense and POV gets to be boring and repetitive, and they all start to flow into one long story? I admit it, I have the attention span of a gnat with ADD. I also get sick of a steady diet of the same thing, which is what a lot of the fic I'm getting in SV reads like to me. Same old, same old, and the fandom's not even a year old yet and, I'm not even near reading everything. So if I'm opening the random small sampling of fic that i have time to read and this is happening, I can only *imagine* what the bulk of it must be like. By this point, even a good author isn't going to get my attention for her present tense futurefic until the sour taste I've got right now wears off. I understand that this is only me, and I'm not exactly up there on the list of people who send a lot of feedback, or who has a lot of influence, but it concerns me when there's already so much product and it's all so similar. That shouldn't be happening. Granted, it's a LOT easier to write badly in present tense--I mean, ALOT easier to seriously, seriously screw up. This is true, simply because most of the time when telling a story, we tell it in past tense, and it's natural to slip into that, leading to tense errors in writing that don't always get caught before posting. Third past is a default for most writers for a reason--mediocre work can hide in that one and it's very easy, very VERY easy, to do. It's the basic. First person pov is another one that is easy to write. I think first person is most often seen in fanfic because people *believe* it's easy to write. I think that 1. it becomes a crutch for authors [oh, I'm good at Xander, so I'll just ever write things from his POV, so I don't have to worry about the other characters' voices] and 2. it's not easy to write well. I've deleted more first person Lex fic than I care to recall, because it didn't sound *anything* like Lex. Admittedly, we don't know what he sounds like in his own head, but I think we can extrapolate from his conversations with people what his speech and thought patterns might be like. So while first person is extremely common, I don't think it's done well a good portion of the time. People fall into all sorts of traps [luckily, no one in Smallville has a noticeable accent, so we're spared the horrors that come up in X-Men fic, where people write first person stories in which the accent is so thick in the narration that the story is almost impossible to make heads or tails of. Jenn knows whereof I speak *g*]. There's a reason I avoid it - if I can't make the character sound like him/herself, I switch to third person, where I've got a bit more leeway. I admit to also liking the distance yet closeness that a third person limited POV can give a writer, and it's my default setting. Present is beautiful for highlighting flaws in plotline, character, style, and pacing. Ain't it the truth? I think that's why it's best left to the "plotless character ramble" as Sarah T. calls it, i.e., the introspective vignette. Or the PWP. Second person has never annoyed me by existing--it annoys me when it's used badly, but if my favorite ten authors all released fifty page second person point of view stories, I would be ALL over them. Like chicken pox. And I'd be running in the other direction. Second person is a gimmick. It's annoying. It's saying, "Look ma! No hands!" It's not organic. It doesn't seem to me to grow naturally out of telling a story. When done well, present tense does something that past usually cannot. It brings a perfect immediacy to the situation at hand, an almost real-life like quality. Live action, almost. It's a frenetic pace of fic, it makes everything very vivid, very real, very hard, very immediate, and very DAMN hard to tear yourself away from. I think this is a fallacy that snags many writers, and they think they're giving their story an immediacy that really, they're not. It feels immediate in the writing, but not in the reading. So I guess it depends on who you're writing for, and if you're not writing for an audience, but for yourself, (generic "yous" all), then for god's sake, don't post it! Ahem. I think present tense works best in thought pieces. Used for action, it strikes me as incomplete, unfinished. A sketch of a story, not the story itself. Admittedly, a lot of this is simply personal preference. As I said, I may be conservative or old-fashioned or a curmudgeon. I just don't think it *works*, and I find it distracting. If something in a story pulls me out of the story to notice the tense or the POV, the author hasn't done her job, because I should be so lost in the story that those things don't matter. Part of it is yes, familiarity, and most published fiction is in past tense and so is most familiar to most people, but I've been reading fanfic long enough, and reading enough pomo fiction to be used to present tense and *still* I find it annoying in long stories in all but the most skillful hands. Second person is trickier to quantify for me--I'm not sure why I like it. It has the same sense of immediacy, the feeling of walking in someone else's shoes almost. It's--intimate? And I'm not talking about those choose-your-own-adventure things we read as kids. When it's done well, there is nothing quite like it for putting you in that situation, that space, watching out of those eyes. Gimmicky be damned. I'm a whore for things that make me feel. THAT makes me feel. Yeah, that makes me feel annoyed. *g* I don't find any sense of identification with second person. I find a sense that the author is trying to manipulate me overtly and usually not very skillfully. I can count on three fingers the second person stories I've liked and 2 were by Molly and one was by Elizabeth (or vice versa. I forget). I think you see the quality of the author necessary to make it work for me, and I *still* had reservations. If you want me to be in the character's place, give me a first person narrative. Then I feel like *I'm* the "I" of the story, even though I don't know what's happening, I feel like I'm in the character's head. "You" just sounds exactly like a choose-your-own-adventure story. As I'm writing this, I remember that I've already laid out my feelings on both tense and style numerous times, so some linkage: on tense, on style, and then more on style. At least I'm a consistent curmudgeon. BEMC has just announced big deal, which is why I'm here late, but I'm going home in a few minutes, I think. But hey, at least I'll get overtime. As always, comments are welcome. ~victoria link [current mood: curmudgeonly] [current music: Smooth - Santana featuring Rob Thomas] [random quote: Shifting from one tense to the other gives the appearance of uncertainty and irresolution.] ~*~ 2002-05-21 - 11:40 a.m. the song remains the same Songfic... The topic has been discussed ad nauseum, and it's come up on zendom, so I'm trying to marshal my arguments. So, let us begin. Songfic... What is it? I've yet to see a definition that works for me. Is it a fic that in any way references a song [title, chapter headers etc.]? Is it a fic inspired by a song, but doesn't include any of the lyrics in the story? Or is it a fic built around the lyrics to a song, which can't stand on its own without the lyrics? How about a fic that weaves lyrics of a song into the fabric of the story, as description, narration or dialogue? What about karaoke fic? Is it somehow less respectable than "regular" fic? Or is it like sampling in rap music - a viable art form in its own right? How about [to reference my own work, which at least some of you may be familiar with] say, Gilded Cages, Broken Wings - there's a scene that quotes a whole set of lyrics, to which Rogue is stripping. Is that a songfic, even though it's one scene in a much longer story? Or Harbor in the Tempest? Does that make Casablanca, in essence, a songfic? Sam does sing "As Time Goes By" and there's a whole montage set to it. What about stories that are inspired by or take their titles from songs, but the lyrics aren't part of the story in any way? Are those songfics? What if the lyrics are woven into the narrative - as in Untouchable Face where I refer to the bar Rogue goes to as "a safe haven of the sleepless where the deep fryer is always on and the radio is counting down the top twenty country songs"? It's not set off like a lyric, it's just the description, though it comes right from the song. So there are my questions. Now let's see if I can formulate my answers... The argument against songfic, in one short paragraph: I've seen it - we've all seen it, I bet - Our Heroine can never be with Our Hero because he's in love with someone else, so what does she do? In the school talent show, or the local karaoke bar, she belts out "On My Own" from Le Miz and Our Hero weeps when he realizes that she's singing for him. Let's face it -- they did it on Dawson's Creek in the first season finale [don't look at me like that! I watched it the first season on and off and not these last two seasons but the one before that for Pacey/Joey... mmm Pacey] - it's not an original idea. It's maudlin and ridiculous. Not to mention seriously lazy writing. If a story can't stand without someone else's words propping it up, it's not much of a story. It's cheating to expect a song to do your work for you. (as an aside, I think many television shows now rely way too heavily on music for this very same reason. Smallville could *totally* cut down on the music and Sarah McLachlan should be banned from TV and fanfic completely.) Yet I keep writing fic based on songs... If the writing is strong, then the lyrics can be an accent, they can add an extra layer of meaning or nuance for people who know the song, but the story stands alone and completely understandable and moving [the writer hopes] to the reader unfamiliar with, say, "Anna Begins" or "And I Fell Back Alone." As far as I'm concerned, a story that uses short lyrics as chapter headers or is "inspired by" a song, isn't really a songfic [see also, Feel Me Don't You, which was my first and most obvious foray into songfic, and Should Have Taken a Chance, which was inspired by having "Fell Into the Loneliness" on repeat for a couple of days. And those are just two examples from my 150+ story oeuvre]. Then there are fics which have titles stolen from songs, either lyrics or song titles, where the story isn't based at all on the lyrics, per se, but the title fits the story. If you go through my fics, you'll notice more than a handful of 'em are named from songs. I guess that's why this topic gnaws at me, because I don't like being lumped in with those "On My Own" type fics, and I do see the problems they present. I also think that since music is so pervasive in my life, it's odd not to have characters occasionally quote song lyrics or hum along with the radio, even if the song is never named... And I think the stories I've written that might be lumped under the songfic heading and deleted on sight by people who are [rightly] prejudiced against songfic of the "On My Own" nature, are deleted unfairly. Because they're *not* songfic in that same sense. We need a new term for stories like mine (and many other people who use music as an inspiration). I'm not trying to be argumentative [well, maybe a little *g*], it's just that I use songs *a lot* in my fic, and I don't see that as a bad thing, necessarily, because I'm not just taking huge chunks of lyrics and plopping them down in the middle of the fic to express how a character is feeling. On a related topic, choosing songs that fit the characters is a tricky business. Let's face it, unless you're writing sillyfic, Logan is not going to be singing along to *NSync. Nor are the folks from Star Wars or LotR. And anything set in the far future that uses today's disposable pop music is immediately mocking-worthy. Unless you're using standards, and even then, who knows what will still be considered a "classic" or a standard 200 years from now, don't even go there. On the other hand, some songs just cry out for some characters. It's rarely the music, for me. It's always the words. I'm known in the Buffy newsgroup for thinking that Xander is every guy in every Springsteen song , partially because the character Xander is [or used to be ::grumble::] written as the "Everyman". But snatches of lyrics - or whole songs - will jump out at me as something a character [usually Logan] would say, or something that would be said about them. An example [sticking with the Boss]: in Thunder Road, I can easily hear Logan saying, "Don't run back inside, darlin', you know just what I'm here for / so you're scared an you're thinkin' that maybe we ain't that young anymore / show a little faith / there's magic in the night / you ain't a beauty but hey you're all right / and that's all right with me /... The car's out back if you're ready to take that long, long walk / from the front porch to my front seat / the door's open but the ride ain't free / I know you been waitin' for words that I ain't spoken / tonight we'll be free / all the promises will be broken /... it's a town full of losers, I'm pullin' outta here to win" Or, from "Born to Run" "Oh baby this town rips the bones from your back / it's a death trap / it's a suicide rap / we gotta get out while we're young / 'cause tramps like us / baby we were born to run / Wendy let me in / I wanna be your friend / I wanna guard your dreams and visions / just wrap your legs round these velvet rims / and strap your hands cross my engine / Together we can break this trap / we'll run til we drop / baby we'll never go back...Together Wendy we can live with the sadness / I'll love you with all the madness in my soul / someday girl I don't know when / we're gonna get to that place where we really wanna go / and we'll walk in the sun / 'cause tramps like us / baby we were born to run" Or, though the characters don't match in the song, I can hear Logan saying, "Baby if you wanna be wild / you got a lot to learn / close your eyes / let them melt / let them fire / let them burn" (from "Candy's Room") to Rogue. And that's just three songs from Springsteen. If you listen to enough of his stuff, you'll be convinced Logan *has* to be a Springsteen fan [at least, my Logan is - as well as a Janis Joplin and Johnny Cash fan. *g*] I used "Untouchable Face" by Ani DiFranco and I think it's a perfect L/J/R song; so is "Gravel" [and I'm kicking ideas around for that]: "All I need is my leather / one t-shirt and two socks / I'll keep my hands warm in your pockets / we can use the engine block / and we'll ride out to California / with my arms around your chest /and I'll pretend that this is real / because it's what I like best / You've been juggling two women / like a stupid circus clown / telling us both we are the one / and maybe you can keep me / from ever being happy / but you're not going to keep me from / having fun" I could go on, but I won't. If a fic is good and the words of the song fit, then you shouldn't even need the music to read it [though it might help]. In some ways, it's easier to visualize a scene while writing it with a certain song playing in the background. And I guess I'm biased, because a lot of the tv shows I love have used music extremely well to accent mood - I can't help but think of Buffy riding the bus out of town when I hear "Full of Grace," nor have I been able to separate Kellerman alone in the squadroom from "What A Good Boy." (Though as I said above, it seems to me that television and movies are relying way too heavily on musical cues to do their work for them these days, and that's just shoddy filmmaking). If a writer is able to convey that, more power to 'em. I think that many caveats apply, however, to explicitly using or referencing music in one's writing. Because it can be heavy-handed and badly done so easily. And jeez that's a lot of adverbs. Hmm.... I think that basically covers what I want to say, though I'm not sure it says it in any coherent sense. I'll have to reread and revise before I finally post my opinion to the list. ~*~ Rant on present tense, sentence fragments, too much cologne and coffee over in the LJ. ~*~ And, for the faithful, a spur-of-the-moment L/R ficlet complete, and unposted anywhere, as I just wrote it right now. *g* ~*~ Comments are always welcome.. ~victoria link [current mood: cranky] [current music: Follow Me - Uncle Kracker] [random quote: You know that sinking feeling that sometimes happens the morning after? It's arrived early.] ~*~ 2002-05-20 - 10:59 p.m. the lameness can't even be *comprehended* My reaction to Angel's season finale can be summed up in one word: LAME If you need to read more about it, go over to the LJ But basically, LAME is all you need to know. LaT takes my convoluted hero musings and makes more sense of them than I did. Viridian5 wrote an entry on killing in the Jossverse which is interesting. I'm still processing it, so I have nothing insightful to add. I think she's with me on the whole Giles killing Ben thing, though. *g* Hope is a suitable pseud I guess, because she has much more hope, or faith in the writers of Smallville (or any television show, really, outside of the ones where the concept is so intrinsic to the writing, ala 24 that they *have* to figure everything out as far in advance as possible), if she really thinks they're going to break the show down into seasonal arcs and have it all sketched out this early on. Yeah, they probably have signposts [Clark Loses His Virginity! Chloe Finds Out the Secret! Lex Turns Evil!] and a general idea of where they'll fall if the show gets renewed for X number of seasons, but I don't really see the writing staff being that forward-thinking. Honestly, I don't think any writing staff on a television show is that forward thinking. That could be my own pessimism and current disgust with ME's writing staff talking, though. Still working on the comfort sex fic, to the exclusion of all else right now. Finished the Logan POV, which desperately needs editing. There's this one paragraph of exposition that... grrr.... I'm just not sure where else to put it, but I know it doesn't belong there. I may just cut it out altogether. I think I'm being a bit anvilicious, to steal a Smallville phrase, so cutting it out mightn't hurt, and could only help, really. Bad exposition. Bad! Plus, I'm still pondering the coma-Scott fic, trying to figure out how it all ties together, and also the amnesiac!Rogue fic is starting to make some noises again in my subconscious. I think this week at work is going to be busy. That new thing they have me doing - me, doing customer service! Are they insane?! - starts on Wednesday, so tomorrow should be interesting, what with the scripting and such that they're supposed to do for me. We'll see. I hope I have time to write, because I've been in a writing mood. Good for me. Bad for you. *G* ~victoria [current mood: disgusted] [current music: What It's Like - Everlast] [random quote: you know where it is, yo, it usually depends on where you start] ~*~ 2002-05-20 - 3:38 p.m. stupid exposition. I hate exposition. I hate shoehorning it into stories when I can't figure out where the hell it's supposed to go. I hate when I know what I want to happen and it doesn't happen, and I'm left with a morass of words that says nothing worth reading. Stupid Logan POV. Maybe I should skip it. ~victoria [current mood: annoyed] [current music: Hold On Loosely - .38 Special] [random quote: Hold on loosely, and don't let go / if you cling too tightly you're gonna lose control] ~*~ 2002-05-20 - 10:48 a.m. "The more I know, the more confused I get." Fair warning. Gonna be referencing some religious things, but more in the context of how the *story* of Christ works, rather than how the faith or religion that sprung from the story itself works. I'll try and separate out my personal beliefs from what I see as the story, and how that story is one of the templates for every other story ever written or told in the Western world. However, if you're easily offended or you tend to get antsy when this stuff is mentioned, you might want to pass this by. Over in the guestbook, Christina wrote: Hmm. Regarding: Morality, Clark/Supes, Buffy.... I have a thought, just the barest wisp of foggy idea here. I'm still trying to coax it into shape, to take it for what it's worth. Regarding whether Buffy should have been the one to kill Ben (aside from the fact that she had other priorities at the moment, like saving Dawn) Honestly, I'd say Buffy's priority *should* have been saving the world, not saving Dawn, but yeah, saving Dawn was up there. and whether Superman/Clark should kill Lex, once it's obvious he's going to kill people: yeah, it's an ugly precedent, as you mentioned. Yeah, sometimes it's still necessary for murderers with too much power to be stopped. But - and here's the thing - why *does* it have to be Buffy or Clark that does it? Because they can? So can lots of other people. In the case of Buffy, because *she's* the Chosen One, the one who is supposed to protect humanity from darkness and evil. She's accepted the burden time and again. It's not fair and it's not right, and we can argue til the cows come home about the morality of the PTB who did this to her, but she's accepted her Slayerness, and therefore, all the things that come with it, both good (healing, fighting skills) and the bad (dying young, losing family members and friends, existential loneliness). In Clark's case, yes, because he can - because he's *chosen* to be a hero. I'm not talking about 16-year-old Clark Kent who may or may not be canonically infatuated with Lex Luthor. I'm talking about *Superman*. It's his job - his *chosen* path to stop evil and save lives when he can. Once he puts on the tights and cape, he has to make some hard choices, and while in literature it's nice to point at the man who chose his principles over doing something iffy or wrong to save lives [well, some people like those kinds of "heroes." I don't.], but it seems an empty victory to me. That seems to me to be putting yourself, your soul, before millions of other people's. I don't know. I can believe that one can write a good story where making such a choice leads to the world being saved - the whole "one good man" thing [and really, much of Western literature is *based* on such a story, no? Jesus makes the choice to die for others' sins - he suffers and is the noble hero. He takes the cup in the end, his moments of doubt notwithstanding. He was human after all, as well as divine, the way the story is set up, and since then, for the past 2000 years, we've got this idea that heroes suffer and are noble and perfect. But heroes aren't perfect. They usually have at least one huge honking flaw that leads to tragedy. I mean, heroes in the Greek sense, not the DC comics sense. I think we lost sight of that a long time ago. I also think it ties into the whole happy v. sadfic debate going on - that suffering is far more noble than being happy (or at least intellectually superior *snerk*) because the saints flagellated themselves when they weren't being tortured, but that's a whole 'nother entry, I think] - in saving one's soul one saves the world, but... Buffy has always been more about how being good costs. It hurts, and it doesn't always work out and you may just end up being not a whole lot better than the things you kill (which is one reason I don't think Slayers live long. Look at Buffy in WSWB - she's got bad, bad things going on inside as a result of PTSD [never adequately addressed until this season, and this season I don't think it's been handled as well as it could have been. It's mostly been form following function, which is great for a poem but makes for very boring, blah television, in the case of eps like Doublemeat Palace and Life Serial] and four more years of killing things, having her mother die, etc. is only going to make her depression worse). And I quote: Buffy: It'd be simpler if I could just hate him. I think he wanted me to. I think it made it easier for him to be the villain of the piece. Really he was just scared. Giles: Yes, I suppose he was. Buffy: Nothing's ever simple anymore. I'm constantly trying to work it out. Who to love or hate. Who to trust. It's just, like, the more I know, the more confused I get. Giles: I believe that's called growing up. Buffy: I'd like to stop then, okay? Giles: I know the feeling. Buffy: Does it ever get easy? (Buffy stakes Ford) Giles: You mean life? Buffy: Yeah. Does it get easy? Giles: What do you want me to say? Buffy: Lie to me. Giles: Yes, it's terribly simple. The good guys are always stalwart and true, the bad guys are easily distinguished by their pointy horns or black hats, and, uh, we always defeat them and save the day. No one ever dies, and everybody lives happily ever after. Buffy: Liar. (from Alexander's transcript) So right there, in a nutshell, is the answer to BtVS's take on heroism, circa season 2. At that point, Buffy knew that she'd have to make hard choices, that things aren't always black and white, and that being a hero means you can't save everybody, sometimes not even yourself, and yet you should be willing to sacrifice everything in order to do so. When that changed, when it became, "The PTB [both internally and externally] give Buffy a break because she's suffered so much, so whatever she decides will turn out to be the right decision (even if it's really not, from both a moral and a storytelling point of view) and also have the desired consequence [i.e., world save-age and her death]," the show lost a lot of meaning and a lot of its power, in my opinion. As I said, I have no problem with Buffy being unable to kill Ben, or to sacrifice Dawn. I think it was perfectly suited to her frame of mind at the time. I just don't think it was heroic and I don't think *Giles* of all people, should be holding it up as such. Christina again: Lex may be one of the most powerful guys in the world, but until he's at the point where he *does* own the Federal Government and every D.A. in the state, it's as much society's job to stop him as it is Clark's. In practical terms, yeah, it would be expedient for Superman to crack his neck. But if the only reason he's the one that can do that is because there's no proof, or only proof Superman can find... the consequences of him making that decision, even if no one can stop him from killing Lex, are pretty damn ugly. Judge, jury and executioner are separate jobs for a *reason*. And the cost to Clark is high: he never signed up to be an executioner. A rescue-guy, a crime-stopper, a lifesaver, sure. But who would give him the authority to kill those who need killing? The President? The world's approval? I just can't go there... In the short term, maybe it could be, someday, absolutely necessary that Clark kill Lex without anyone finding out or *ever* suspecting it was him. But it would never be something he did lightly. Or be able to live with easily. Nor should it be. I don't disagree with anything you've said here. A Superman who kills bad guys in the name of justice, without trial etc., would be a horror. However, the way things are set up, he is the only one who can stop Lex, and if stopping Lex at some point needs to include killing him, then Superman ought to do it, rather than save his own soul. That's what soldiers and police officers do. They may not always do it right, and god knows, society needs to have oversight, but it's something they're prepared to do, as much as laying their own lives on the line [another thing that Superman, at least, doesn't generally have to worry about, which makes his heroism sometimes a little... hollow. He can't be hurt or killed except under very specific circumstances. So the only real struggle he has is morally. So making him the Uber-Boy Scout is just... not interesting to me, personally. If there's no chance that he's going to fall off the straight-and-narrow, if his growth as a character is all done and he's this perfect man who always does the right thing and never screws up and acts in his own interest or on his own desires, well, that's not a story that attracts me. Where's the tension? He's Superman. You know he's going to kick ass by the end. That's what makes Smallville fun to play around in. Because he's not Superman yet. We can see how he becomes the man he will become, but if he's always perfect and always does the right thing, even as a teenager, then he's just a two-dimensional Christ figure and well, we've already got one of those, you know? It's not an interesting story unless there are those doubts and fears and missteps along the way.] And wow, that's a convoluted paragraph. I'm not even sure where I'm going. Oh yeah, if mere human men and women can put their souls on the line as well as their lives [if you believe in a soul. Or just their integrity and principles, if you don't (generic you, not just Christina-you *g*)], then how can Superman do any less? Or is that his failing - the thing he's not prepared to do? *That's* an interesting story - why he draws the lines he draws. Why he's worried about killing Lex, that it would lead to killing others, until he's just a killer - a vigilante, instead of a superhero [the difference has never been quite clear to me, but I'm willing to accept that there is one for the purposes of superhero stories. Buffy, by taking human law into her own hands, were she to do so, would become a vigilante. I understand why she doesn't]. More Christina: As for Buffy's decision, and Giles's analysis of her inability to kill Ben - that's got all sorts of icky ambiguities to it. If he was right, and Glory would have come back someday, then yes, to save the Scoobies, it was necessary that he do that... probably. To save the Scoobies?! To save the freaking multiverse, I'd say. Again, saving the Scoobies ought to be the *least* of Buffy's priorities when there's an Apocalypse on the horizon. Saving one's friends is heroic, sure, but not at the expense of the world or the universe. Which is one problem (of many) I've had with the show since season 4 (and also with Angel, since last season). Since when did Buffy only become responsible for saving her friends or her town? What happened to the rest of the world? What happened to all those people she doesn't know who might die because she lets a vampire go or because the demons aren't threatening her friends and family? What the fuck kind of heroism is *that*? Christina: But there may have been other alternatives: strengthening the spell to lock Glory inside of Ben. Expelling her from this dimension, and Ben with her, the way Anya and Willow did to Olaf. Etcetera. None of them would have been perfect, but that's what Buffy would have insisted on before she made a decision to kill him. And yes, it would have put them all at risk. But, but - Ben threw in with Glory. He turned on Dawn. And there was no way that they'd find an alternative to killing him by the time Buffy was facing him. I think we have to agree to disagree on this one. Buffy should have killed Ben, and as she didn't, Giles shouldn't have lauded her as a "hero". Christina: Which is why Giles - as the grownup, as her de-facto father, as someone whose dealt with the darkness a lot longer - took it on himself to make the decision for her. Buffy has the physical strength to do it; but Giles had the emotional moral strength. I don't think that it's something you can just tell someone to "grow up" and *do*. No, you can't. That doesn't mean I sometimes don't feel like shaking a character and telling them that. *g* Anyhow... Buffy had the moral strength to send the man she loved to hell to save the world. Was she broken and unable to kill Ben because of her own existential crisis? I can buy that. Not a problem. As I said, it's the painting of that as heroism instead of despair that bothers me. Especially as the creators of the show have said that last season and this have been about becoming adults. Buffy's not sixteen anymore. She's allegedly an adult, or at least trying to function like one. To abdicate her adult responsibilities to Giles every time things are too hard is... not growing up. It's shirking, and it's a character flaw, not a trait to be honored. And I don't think it makes Clark or Buffy lesser heroes because they haven't reached that point yet. I think they set that limit, an artificial one, admittedly, of not killing humans on themselves... because they know that they don't know where the line after the first killing stops. And until they're sure, they *shouldn't* do that. Being a superhero means doing their best to protect the innocent, not eliminating every single threat. Anyway, it's a theory. Still workin' on it. Again, I don't think Clark is ready, at the time of Smallville to make these decisions or take these actions. He's got a lot of growing up to do. And I'd like to see that on the show, as I said. Seeing him be practically perfect in every way even at the age of 16 isn't interesting or good writing, in my opinion. As for Buffy - well, I think I've said my piece about that, huh? I'm not sure how I can make that any clearer, or if this expansion has helped anyone - even me - understand what I'm trying to say any better. ~*~ Big rant on the fans striking back over in the LJ. ~victoria link [current mood: argumentative] [current music: Both Sides Now - Joni Mitchell] [random quote: I've looked at life from both sides now, from win and lose, and still somehow I really don't know life at all] ~*~ previous - next DiaryLand Disclaimer: Reading this diary is not required by law. If you do not like or agree with the contents herein, or find them to be offensive on more than one occasion, please go elsewhere and don't come back. Management is not responsible for any adverse reactions to content within. The painting is "Boreas" by John William Waterhouse. Again, not a muse, but I like her. She suits the color scheme. The quote is from Sir Philip Sidney. This site is best viewed with IE4+ | 1024x768 | true color | verdana | tables